Fake Debate
Fake Debate: Cracking Down on “Hot” Handbags
What: Retail crime is up. And Congress is paying attention, with bills that give authorities more freedom to stop it.
What They Say: ” A mass of buyers for hot new products [for instance, the trendiest new handbags] at huge discounts is fueling organized retail crime—giving “hot” a darker meaning on the Internet, swap meets or flea markets.”
What We Say: If you’ve ever been to NYC, it was probably hard to resist the urge to buy that $15 Chanel purse in that shady alley way. But even if you’ve never gone bargain hunting in Chinatown, you’ve been to Craigslist and eBay, which feature ridiculously cheap designer clothes and accessories that, at times, seem all too good to be true/legal. Since shoppers are on an increasingly tight budget and retailers are nixing more and more staff every day, theft is bound to be a big problem. You may be contributing to it unknowingly—find out if you’re sporting a fake Luis Vuitton.
Are you okay with buying “hot” commodities, and if so, will you be disgruntled if law enforcement makes them less accessible, even to the benefit of the retail industry?
Fashion Advice: The Fake Debate Continues- Designer Jeans
Dear Budget Fashionista,
I’m a petite woman who would like to try some Joe’s Jeans, but they’re out of my price range. I often see discounted pairs listed on eBay, but I have no idea how to spot a fake. I know you’ve addressed copies of high-end handbags, but what about denim? Are three-digit jeans really more flattering than a quality, $70 pair?
You can find real Joe’s Jeans for deep discounts at places like Last Call Neiman Marcus and Off Fifth, the Saks Fifth Avenues outlet. I would also check Marshalls, Filene’s Basement and TJ Maxx, who often get shipments of some of the top brands in jeans. Sign up online for their mailing lists, so you’ll get notified when they have their special denim events.
In terms of buying designer jeans on eBay, I would proceed with caution. It’s difficult to assess online whether a pair of jeans are the real thing or a knock-off. I think your best bet is to try and find them at the stores mentioned above.
There’s not much difference in terms of quality of fabric (and often construction) between a higher priced pair of jeans and a lower priced pair. For example, Faded Glory jeans at Wal-Mart and Mossimo at Target are thought to be as good, if not better, than many of the higher priced lines sold at Neiman and Saks, You’re often just paying extra money for the name brand.
Does Bluefly Sell Fakes? The Fake Debate
The fake debate continues and apparently our friends over at the internet’s number one designer outlet, Bluefly, is caught up in the middle. There’s been quite a bit of chatter on the net regarding Bluefly’s selling of fake handbags, namely Balenciaga and possibly fake Tommy Hilfiger (really, why in the world would anyone need to sell fake Tommy handbags when you can get them for $19.99 at TJ Maxx).
Now, I’ve bought things from Bluefly before and all the things I’ve purchased have been real. However, where there’s smoke, there’s usually a little simmer of fire. I emailed Bluefly
to give them the opportunity to respond and here’s their response:
Yep, nothing….
Fashion Advice: The Great Fake Debate Continues
Q: How do you buy a knock-off hand bag? What are your guidelines, what are smart prices to pay? What is important to look for? I want to be able to have nice handbags but not be broke because of them!
A: There has been quite a bit of debate regarding knock-off bags (especially fake Louis Vuitton handbags) and the impact these bags have had on the fashion industry. Exact duplicates are not fair to the designers, period. Imagine spending years perfecting your art and name, only to have some steal your idea and sell it for well below market value. However, using elements of a popular design is nothing new in fashion. Every major and minor design house “borrows” design elements from other fashion designers and lower priced stores like H&M often sell items using a design made popular by more expensive designers (I call it “designer inspired” items). The difference between “knock-offs” and “designer inspired versions”, that the designer inspired versions don’t claim to be the real thing.
When looking to buy a knock-off you have to ask yourself, do I want it because the celebrity of the moment has it or do I want it because I truly like the designer and the bag. If the later is your answer, skip the rest of this article and save your pennies (nickels, dimes,) to purchase a real bag. However, if the reason why you want it is because Nicole Ritchie, Lindsay Lohan, or whatever celebrity of the moment has the bag, then I suggest you really think about why you’re buying the item (and why you feel the need to emulate an idea that isn’t real in the first place—celebrities often get those items for free). Buying a designer bag isn’t going to make you Jessica Simpson.
If it is quality you want—rarely are knock-offs good quality—then look for high quality, mid-priced bags from designers like Coach, Hype, Kenneth Cole, Donna Karan, Cole Haan, etc. You’ll find these bags for up 75% off at stores like Nordstrom’s Rack, Marshalls, T.J. Maxx, and their outlet stores. Furthermore, designer label doesn’t always equal quality. For example, a very famous designer makes a nylon bag that just because it has its label on it retails for over $300. You could buy the same bag, same quality for around $30 at your local T.J. Maxx.
Wal-Mart Sued for Selling Fakes
According to Fashionwatch, Wal-Mart is being sued for selling fake Fendi accessories at Sam’s Club stores. According to Louis Vuitton, the parent company of Fendi, the Sam’s Club bags replicate the real Fendi accessories right down to the labels and signature logo and sell for almost 70% cheaper than the original bags.
The Fake Debate: Another Teen Weighs In
There was an overwhelming response to the fake debate topic (especially the essay by my friend Mel. B.). Most of you supported the use of fakes, while only two people were against the trend of fake fashion. I encourage you all to weigh in your thoughts about the whole knock-off designer trend. You never know, I might post them in the blog, like this email from a teen who just happens to live in Texas.
I go to a private school where fashion is highly competitive, so you’d think that people would scorn you if you walked on campus with a fake, right? Wrong! At my school, it’s not about who you’re wearing, it’s how you wear it. This means many different pieces need to be used in lots of different ways. I love fake purses because you can instantly change moods, which is great for a teen. When I’m feeling girly I can use my pink quilted Chanel, and when I’m feeling a little more Mischa Barton, I can just switch to my oversized, studded See by Chloe bag. And, the total price of these two bags didn’t even make a dent in my birthday money.
As for the argument that fakes are wrong because they take business away from designers, I don’t think that’s actually true. Let’s face it, a person who’s going to spend $30 on a fake is not going to spend upwards of $1000 on the real thing, so the designer never lost any money in the first place. In fact, the designer is getting free advertising!
At a time where the quality of fakes is getting increasingly better, I believe it will become more and more acceptable to carry around a fake. From a teenager’s perspective, it certainly makes much more sense to buy many fakes than to purchase one real designer bag, especially since teens are very prone to losing things. Also, designers should take it as a compliment that everyone wants a bag like theirs.
Fake Handbag Debate: A Teen Weighs In
You could be having a bad hair day, and wearing a not so great outfit, but if you’re holding a designer bag people respect you, they know you’re “someone”. Designer bags are obviously status symbols . . . something not everyone can afford which is why there’s an entire industry devoted to fakes. From the street vendors in Chinatown to eBay, knock off bags are everywhere.
When you pay big bucks for a designer bag yes, you’re definitely paying for the name, but also the craftsmanship. When you buy a fake you’re compromising quality. An authentic Hermes Birkin will last you a lifetime, as opposed to the knock off that will only last you a year or two. I think knock offs are wrong. They’ve tainted the images and reputations of designers (Louis Vuitton is particular), and some even end up funding terrorism, child labor, and illegal drug trade. If you purchase a fake you’re being unfair to the designer as well as those who paid for an authentic bag.
Bio: Jazmin Gonzalez is a 16-year-old New York City High School junior with a “passion for fashion” and aspirations to be a Fashion Editor. She currently hold the title of Miss Empire Royalty Junior Teen.
** the opinions expressed in the fake debate series are those of the guest blogger, not The Budget Fashionista. If you got issues with what they have to say, email them directly or post a comment below.**
The Fake Debate Goes Legal
Law professor and blogger Susan Scafidi gives us the legal issues behind buying or selling counterfeit goods.
As a law professor with a passion for fashion, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about the counterfeit question. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, here’s the scoop on what’s legal—or not:
Q. Is manufacturing or selling a handbag with a fake Louis Vuitton or Prada label illegal?
A. Yes. You already knew that one. In fact, a law passed by Congress last month allows law enforcement to seize not only counterfeit items but also other things used to facilitate trafficking—like computers or automobiles. So think twice before driving downtown to pick up a load of fakes and then printing invitations to a neighborhood purse party.
Q. Is it still illegal if the buyer knows it’s fake, and the seller admits it and disclaims any association with the designer?
A. Yes. There’s still a chance of “consumer confusion” (the test for trademark infringement) among other people who see the bag or upon resale.
Q. What if the bag doesn’t have a logo but otherwise looks just like an Hermes Birkin?
A. That’s a bit more complicated, but for an iconic design, a court might find the bag illegal under a theory of “trade dress” protection. The closer the copy is to a recognizable, famous original, the more likely it is to be illegal.
Q. If selling counterfeits is illegal, why is it so easy to find them online or on the street? In New York, you can even buy unauthorized NYPD t-shirts and hats!
A. Law enforcement is expensive—and there’s an eager market. For some manufacturers, the potential for huge profits makes the risks worthwhile.
Q. So much for handbags—what about Oscar gowns and other clothing?
A. In the U.S., knocking off clothing (without using a fake label or logo) is legal, although creative types have been trying to change that for at least a century. On March 30, a new bill that would give designers protection against line-for-line copyists was introduced in Congress. It’s supported by designers like Zac Posen and Diane von Furstenberg—and if it passes, it will give a whole new meaning to articles like Marie Claire’s regular “Splurge or Steal?” feature.
Q. But this is fashion—everybody copies everybody else! How else would we know that wedge espadrilles and lace are “in” for spring?
A. The new law would apply only to literal copies, not trends or inspiration. But it could bring about some changes—just over a decade ago, YSL sued Ralph Lauren for copying an evening gown under a similar law in France, and won.
Q. Can I get arrested or fined for just buying a fake?
Not in the U.S.—but in the past year, both France and Italy have passed laws targeting consumers of counterfeit merchandise. Also, if you go on vacation outside the U.S. and try to bring back an illegal fake, both you and the merchandise could be stopped at customs. But hey, at least you’ll have a great tan in your mug shot.
The bottom line, from a legal perspective anyway, is that selling and even buying fakes can be risky—but the choice is up to you. Will it be a cheap designer knockoff or an original at an affordable price point? Class dismissed—it’s time to shop!
Susan Scafidi writes the blog Counterfeit Chic
Fake Handbag Debate: The Australian Story
Fellower blogger Sarah Goldstein takes the fake debate down under to give us her perspective on fake designer handbags.
A couple of days ago, The Budget Fashionista asked me an interesting question: is the fake purse craze just an American thing?
As one of the few Australian fashion bloggers, I’m here to tell you it’s not. In Sydney, where I live, fake purses are everywhere. I see a lot of them around town, on the arms of everyone from schoolgirls to office workers to women wearing tracksuits in the city (perhaps they’ve just left the gym…)
The most popular kind of fake purse in Australia is the bad fake - smelly PVC ‘Chanel’; ‘Louis Vuitton’ with poorly laid-out monograms and plastic trims; and the occasional worn-out black nylon ‘Prada’ with fraying stitches. While a better quality fake is much harder to spot, I see so few real-looking ‘status’ bags on the streets of Sydney that it’s safe to say there aren’t many top-notch fakes around.
When I was younger, I wore fake designer gear and had fun with it. I was intent on trying every imaginable look - rock chick one day, princess the next - and the availability of fakes meant I could have a good replica of a Gucci watch to complete the preppy outfits, and some Diesel-look tees when I felt more punk. At that age, designer items as investment purchases were out of the question: partly because I didn’t have the money, but also because I could barely guess what I’d want to wear next week so buying something that lasts for years was impossible.
I’m not remotely ashamed about my youthful indiscretions. Experimenting with faux designer items helped me develop a taste for real designer items that I have today - and when I have the money to indulge it, the brands whose fakes I used to wear often benefit.
But while I find fake bags on young cuties adorable, I also strongly believe that older people shouldn’t wear them. It’s not about age, but about an attitude change when fashion ceases to be fun experimentation and instead becomes a serious expression of who you are. As a young lass, I had no shame in wearing a fake Gucci watch and never pretended it was anything else. I would happily compare fake watches with friends, and be thrilled by compliments like “That’s a great copy, it doesn’t say Gucky or anything!”. In contrast, I’ve had the misfortune of discussing fakes with older women who insist their plastic ‘Chanel’s with uneven stitching and horribly constructed handles are the real deal. It’s hard to explain to someone that Chanel bags don’t fall off the back of trucks, they’re not made in China and it’s unlikely that the real Chanel factory makes anything in pleather. Especially stinky pleather.
So what do other Australians think of fake bags? I can’t speak for everyone, but there definitely seems to be a wide spectrum of opinions. There are people who think all fakes are wrong - often those who buy real Louis Vuitton and hate seeing a hundred copies of their bag every time they leave the house. There are also people who think designers are just having a whinge, and they should be flattered that people want to wear their designs (even if they don’t pay them for the privilege). In fashion circles, it’s a topic of heated conversations; amongst normal people, it can seem like a joke.
If there’s any lesson in all of this, it’s to buy what you like without worrying what others will think. A fake status bag won’t convey a great deal of status upon you, but a real one isn’t the answer to all your fashion problems either. When you carry an expensive bag, there will be people who admire and envy your good taste, but there will also be others who think you’re insane for spending that much on a bag. If you’d rather wear a fake, some people will regard it as a bargain and others will see it as a crime. Just don’t expect the logo to change your life and don’t expect the cheap bag to last!
Sara Goldstein lives in Australia and writes the blog The Bargain Queen.
Fake Debate: The Case Against Fake or Real Louis Vuitton
Author, blogger, graphic designer, and handbag critic David Weinberger give us his thoughts on the ubiquitous fake Louis Vuitton Bags
What’s the ugliest bag you’ve ever seen? Close your eyes, I’ll remind you. Start with an unfashionable color, add a poorly executed two-letter-combination logo and top if off with some flowers that look like clip art. Can you picture it? Need another hint? It’s also the bag on the top of your wish list.
If you live in New York, you see it everywhere. Everywhere. The subway, the elevator, and chances are, your apartment. Thousands of them line the walls and ceilings of shops down on Canal Street where you can buy movies on DVD two weeks before they hit theaters. You can buy baby turtles, Rolex watches and silk kimonos in all sizes. You can buy a $5 CD clearly labeled Jay-Z, “The Black Album” although chances are when you hit play, it’ll be “ABBA’s Greatest Hits”. You can buy a massage, on the street, or pose for a live portrait. And, you can buy 100% authentic Louis Vuitton replica handbags.
OK, maybe the Louis Vuitton “Alma” isn’t the ugliest bag you’ve ever seen, but it does cost over seven hundred dollars. Seven Hundred F***ing Dollars! Do people buy bags for seven hundred dollars? Why? You can buy 25 Isaac Mizrahi bags from Target for the same price and have gifts for all of your friends. They probably even hold the same amount of stuff.
“So I have this business plan. I’m going to sell leather purses at a 6,000 percent markup to rich people.”
“Cool, I’m going to do the same with coffee.”
“Cool.”
“Cool.”
That conversation can never happen without branding. I know, you’re sick of branding. For the last few years, brands are all you’ve heard about. Everything’s a brand. Some experts say the brand phenomenon is fading. Some people even make fun of the word. It happened to me the other day. That’s just fine. “The New York Times”, that’s a brand. Oprah is a brand. I’m pretty sure “Sex and the City” is a brand. Get over it. They’re all brands and they all use branding. Louis Vuitton is a great BRAND.
Louis Vuitton started in 1854 as a manufacturer of trunks in Paris and is currently owned by LVMH, an ultra-luxury holding company, which includes companies and brands such as Dom Prignon, Veuve Clicquot, TAG Heuer, Marc Jacobs, Fendi, and Kenzo, among countless others. Pretty impressive, huh?
Louis Vuitton bags are very well made. Extremely well made. I’m not dismissing the value of craftsmen, but luxury brands are about association more than craft. If you can instill thoughts of hipness or royalty or whatever happens to be a desirable association for your product, into your product, then everything else, including craft, can take a back seat. Don’t believe me? How about the craftsmen (factory workers) that make $400 Dolce & Gabanna jeans? Or the bartender that hands me a $12 Heineken with attitude in an Ian Schrager hotel? Or the line cooks who make the food at a Wolfgang Puck Express? Yep, brands are about association.
The point, and I find it remarkable, is that this is a highly sought after product which sells for a lot of money, but is essentially ugly. That’s amazing to me especially because this is a fashion product. So, what are you buying for seven hundred f***ing dollars? It certainly isn’t the leather. It is the lifestyle, the envy, the feeling of success and accomplishment. Being established. The name, the identity, the image of sitting in the middle of Ducasse sipping tea. Lounging by the pool with Mommy and Philippe. Walking Muffy on Park Avenue. It is a Harry Winston necklace, Mikimoto pearls and having the driver pull the car around. It is a presidential fundraising luncheon. It is everything, all rolled into a seven hundred dollar bag.
************
David Weinberger is a graphic designer and brand consultant based in New York City. At FutureBrand, New York, David creates visual and strategic branding programs for clients such as General Motors, Rubbermaid and United Way. He is also an author for “Speak Up,” graphic design’s most widely-read and influential online forum. Parts of this article previously appeared on “Speak Up.”
How to Tell if Your Louis Vuitton is Fake
Many unsuspecting budget fashionistas spend up to $1000 on “authentic” Louis Vuitton bags that turn out to be fakes. Before purchasing your bag, read these basic rules to determine whether or not your louis vuitton is fake.
How to Tell if Your Louis Vuitton is Fake
- If it claims to be “brand new” and costs less than $300, most likely it is fake.
- If the “LV” logo is upright on both sides, it might be a fake.
- If it’s “brand new” and being sold on eBay or Yahoo! Auctions, there is a good chance it’s fake.
- If the piping is not leather, it is fake.
- If the seams are uneven, frayed, the monogram is off or the bag is poorly sewn, it is definitely fake. {pagebreak}
- If there is no date code (a.k.a date number) provided or if the seller is reluctant to provide a date code or receipt, it could be fake.
- If it’s a new bag and the bag’s handle is a different color leather than that of the piping, it’s fake.
- If the seller doesn’t allow returns, most likely it’s fake.
- If you bought it in your local Chinatown or from a street vendor, it’s fake.
- If the dust cover has rounded edges and/or it doesn’t come with a dust cover, it’s fake.
- If the bag has a hanging tag (of any type) or a bright yellow tag or envelope, it’s definitely a fake.
- If you bought the bag on an ecommerce site other than eluxury.com (be careful of eBay), it’s fake.
For more information on how to tell the authenticity of your Louis Vuitton bag, visit an authorized Louis Vuitton retailer like (Neiman Marcus or a boutique at your local high-end mall), call the Louis Vuitton headquarters at (212) 758-8877 or visit My Poupette, a site dedicated to the promotion of real LV bags.
** TBF Note: I have no opinion one way or the other on the whole fake bag issue. However, most people assume if you’re carrying a Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas, it’s a fake. So why bother purchasing the fake OR the real thing? My advice: head to the nearest Loehmanns, Marshalls, Off Fifth, Saks Fifth Avenue, or Last Call Neiman Marcus, purchase a real, high quality bag (Coach, Marc Jacobs, Longchmap, Cole Haan) for cheap and put the money you save into your retirement account. **
The Fake Handbag Debate Marches On
Discuss this topic in The Fashion Gab Forum
The fake debate—whether or not you should buy fake designer bags—is one of the hottest topics on the site (the merits of vaseline as a moisturizer for the skin and whether you need to disinfect thrift store clothing are also pretty hot topics). Everyone’s got an opinion- from the stay at home mom in Iowa to head designers at Kate Spade. So imagine my surprise when during a quick jaunt to the beauty section of my local Wal-Mart I found Louis Vuitton inspired (the pattern and style were the same, except different initials were used) bags. Perhaps Louis Vuitton, Kate Spade, and the likes should worry less about my grandma from Milwaukee scoring a fake on Canal and more about a biggie like Wal-Mart getting into the game.
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