Hate it - Hate it - Hate it!! I too wish sizes were standardized. I range from M to XL / 6-12 - depending on the store and style of clothes - which is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS!!! I don't know why the companies are so screwed up when it comes to sizes. Hello - it doesn't make me want to buy your clothes anymore if they are a size smaller and still UGLY!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

Let me just say...no make that YELL...I HATE whatever the sizing trend is in American clothing at the moment...vanity sizing...WHATEVER. I spent several hours in shopping HELL yesterday at the Westfield Shopping Center in San Francisco trying DESPERATELY to find a pair of black pants...how hard could this be? IMPOSSIBLE I found out.

I went to Banana Republic, Dockers, J Crew, Chico's, and Eddie Bauer and came home with nothing. First problem every store had slightly different descriptions of waist height (Modern, Classic, Comtemporary) and then there was the size discrepancy between one story and another. One place I am a size 1 next place a 10. NOTHING fit...do you hear me...NOTHING.

Finally this morning I ordered out of Appleseed's online catalogue...of course in 2 different sizes. Oh dear...if American retailers want you to buy their MUST HAVES...they make it very difficult.

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why is it that you can have a skinny ugly woman walking down the runway, but you can't have a beautiful large woman walking down the runway? I don't understand… And what happened to equal rights? We women are digging ourselves into a bad esteem hole that I find that men have less of or not at all. Why are we grading ourselves lookswise by our body size. When it comes to looks, size is not all. When it comes to life, looks is not all. So in the grand scheme, size is a tiny issue. And dressing yourself right, meaning the right size and accentuating the positive and downplaying what you find to be a negative can make you look the way that you like.

Not to sound cynical, but women are not so kind when it comes to other women. How many times have you either participated or overheard a group of women criticizing another girl or female celebrity. It almost always centers on looks. She's fugly, fat, has thick ankles, doesn't have the body to wear that outfit, etc.... I can guarantee that there will be people (consumers) who will complain if a non-skinny model is used in advertising, even if they themselves are not. Fashion and advertisements sell fantasies. Yes, the media actively projects this image, but some consumers have also come to expect this.

Even "trying to look good by playing up the positives and playing down the negatives" plays into the overall message (although I get what you are trying to say). That implies there is a good, and there is a bad. Therefore, people can be better, and others will be worse. Some people will always have more positives.

I agree that the fashion industry does play a part, but consumers are not all innocent. I don't know if there is a good solution to this. Skinny women were probably criticized back in the days when a fuller body was desired. I don't think men criticize each other in the same way that women do.

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We women are digging ourselves into a bad esteem hole that I find that men have less of or not at all.

I don't even know if this is Vanity Sizing or not..but on any given day of the week. I can walk over to Old Navy pick out a pair of pants in a 14 and a 16 in TWO different styles of pants. Either the 14 will be majorly too small and the 16 will be ginourmous...OR The 14 will Fit....Or the 16 will fit. I don't understand how you can go into a store and not even come close to having a uniform fit. I mean I could understand if it was different brands but it is all the same! Drives me up a wall. Unfortunately the area I live in Old Navy is probably the best place to shop. And don't even get me started on shirts. I have to buy an xl to accomadate for my chest. But then the Armpits are way to big. Nothing anywhere fits properly. Well now that I am done ranting.

Tangent but this goes hand in hand with both mochiimochii & Gabbyj's posts. Both JCrew & Gap carry longer inseams. J Crew Tall is 35" & Gap Long is 34" & Gap Tall is 36".

For me the 35" & 36" are too long for me unless I wear major heels which I don't. I have do admit that I have gotten jeans at Kohl's [when you hit the clearance racks you would be AMAZED at what you can get] granted it is the Jr dept but the long works for me & I too go for the 34" inseam.

Hope this is of some help.

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Not to sound cynical, but women are not so kind when it comes to other women. How many times have you either participated or overheard a group of women criticizing another girl or female celebrity. It almost always centers on looks. She's fugly, fat, has thick ankles, doesn't have the body to wear that outfit, etc.... I can guarantee that there will be people (consumers) who will complain if a non-skinny model is used in advertising, even if they themselves are not. Fashion and advertisements sell fantasies. Yes, the media actively projects this image, but some consumers have also come to expect this.

Even "trying to look good by playing up the positives and playing down the negatives" plays into the overall message (although I get what you are trying to say). That implies there is a good, and there is a bad. Therefore, people can be better, and others will be worse. Some people will always have more positives.

I agree that the fashion industry does play a part, but consumers are not all innocent. I don't know if there is a good solution to this. Skinny women were probably criticized back in the days when a fuller body was desired. I don't think men criticize each other in the same way that women do.

Thats what I think too… They are so unfair to women themselves, so you know what… You are damned if you use a fat model, damned if you use a skinny one.

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I could not agree with you more, chocoyummy. Society plays a HUGE part in how we see ourselves but "society" in this instance for me reads - not actually society but those with the "power" [media, Hollywood, designers, fashion houses, beauty companies, etc] - cast the line for how we see ourselves. It is up to us as to whether we tow that line or not.

I personally think it would be AWESOME if a magazine - say Lucky, since that is a magazine that specializes in telling us where we can get items - had a one issue that was totally dedicated to the REAL sized woman. I am thinking 12 or 14 and above. Have a larger size model, starlet or what have you on the cover & have layouts of the latest trends and how the "real woman" can pull it off. I know that there used to be a magazine dedicated strictly to the plus sized woman but honestly I think there would be more IMPACT if a standard beauty magazine geared a whole issue to "real women" aka plus sized.

Total sidenote - why aren't the 0-4's of the word called "negative sized" or "minus sized". I think the whole "plus sized" kinda throws things of tilt. No insult meant for the smaller ones of us it was just something that I was thinking.

Ok, stepping off my soapbox. Thanks for listening!

Real women? What? Skinny women aren't real? I come from a long line of very thin women, and it hurts me sometimes when people think that we are anorexic or have eating disorders

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Real women? What? Skinny women aren't real? I come from a long line of very thin women, and it hurts me sometimes when people think that we are anorexic or have eating disorders

By no means was I saying that skinny women aren't real. I never even mentioned anything about eating disorders. I was not throwing insults or anything of the sort. I was merely commenting on the fact that the average size for women in the US is 14 & it would be nice to see that reflected. When you see ads & such most of the women depicted are thin not size 14. That was all I meant. Heck, I have even seen plus size websites using non-plus size women for their ads.

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By no means was I saying that skinny women aren't real. I never even mentioned anything about eating disorders. I was not throwing insults or anything of the sort. I was merely commenting on the fact that the average size for women in the US is 14 & it would be nice to see that reflected. When you see ads & such most of the women depicted are thin not size 14. That was all I meant. Heck, I have even seen plus size websites using non-plus size women for their ads.

I thought it was only me that had witnessed plus size clothes being modeled on non plus size models. I think that adds insult to injury. Its really obvious that is a very sensitive subject for all of us. This has been going on since May!!! I wish there was something we could do about it. Any suggestions?

Christal, I have an idea. We women should just refuse to be “sized” any more. We should demand that women’s clothes come in measurements that are user-friendly. Size is a label.--a random number on a rack. We are not random numbers on a rack. We are multi-dimensional people. Men would never put up with this kind of treatment as consumers and neither should we. BTW, jen K, I do remember Mode magazine. I’m a smaller gal, but I read it every month. I loved the editorial, and I thought the models were beautiful.

Totally thought “vanity shopping” was just something my friends and I talked about! LIke, ew this makes me look fat.

But it’ll make shopping so confusing.

I think it’s CHICO’s that does the size 1 -2 -3 thingy.

Anyway, buy a tape measure and know your measuements. This is especially important when you’re buying online. Make sure you click on the “sizing chart” to find out who they’re sizing their patterns for. An XL might be a 12, or it might be a 14 - 16. You never know.

Also, you should know your measurements to buy the correct size bra and underwear. There’s nothing worse than seeing a women’s bra pinched up against her skin through the back of a t-shirt. Both the bra and t-shirt are too small!